Will AmericansElect.org Split a Vote?

[original post 2011-12-15]
Americans Elect is a SOCIALIST organization. Their goal is to get Obama Re-elected. Why else would they want a 3rd Party? Split vote and get Obama re-elected. This is a SCAM of biblical proportions. Destroying America is their goal.
  • William Waugh

    Justin Holland AE is proposing that all the electorate vote on the presidential nomination regardless of party. They offer several stages of runoffs, so no one splits anyone else’s vote. No one can split the anti-Obama vote because if Obama makes it to the last round of runoffs, everybody can THEN try to vote for the strongest candidate other than Obama. But in the earlier rounds of voting, there is no reason not to vote for the one you want the most.
    Reply · Like · 3 hours ago
  • Justin Holland · Owner/Partner at Semi-Retired

    William Waugh William Waugh maybe you mis understood. I will not stand for socialism in any form whatsoever. I stand by my premise, AE is a socialist organization whose goal is to re-elect Obama. I have fought to keep my country free before, and now I’m ready to fight to keep it free again, even if till my last breathe. The only diffrence, this time the battle field to keep America free has changed to the social media.
    Reply · Like · 3 hours ago
  • William Waugh

    Justin Holland I have argued with you why the process that AE proposes will not tend to lead to Obama’s re-election the way you say it would. You are saying AE is effectively a “third party” that will “split” the anti-Obama vote, leading to Obama’s election. This is not so, because AE offers several rounds of voting, which defeats the “splitting” phenomenon, or at least reduces the strength of its effect.
    Reply · Like · 3 hours ago
  • Justin Holland · Owner/Partner at Semi-Retired

    William Waugh what you say is a “smoke screen” pure and simple. AE WILL split the anti-Obama vote. Not going to be fooled on that one
    Reply · Like · about an hour ago

[Edit 2011-12-20 moving responses into main body of post.]

  1. Justin Holland, how do you figure that AE will split the vote? What’s your reasoning for that? And by the way, it would be politer to tell me I’m mistaken than to tell me I’m lying, which is what you have done. — William Waugh

  2. Justin Holland says:

    1st I never said you were lying. That would be a Tribute that Vice pays to Virtue.
    Any 3rd party candidate will ensure that Obama gets elected. That is a Fact.
    So to say AE is some how going to get a 3rd Party elected is wishful thinking by the most uninformed voter.
    Let me say once again: Obama MUST NOT be Re-Elected.

  3. Justin Holland, alright, you’re right, you didn’t say I was lying. You only said I was throwing up a smokescreen. Well, throwing up a smokescreen is less than honest communication. But maybe I didn’t mean to throw smoke, but did so because of poor skills at articulating an argument. So your statement doesn’t imply that I was deliberately dishonest.

    AmericansElect is not a party in all the senses that we English speakers up to now associate with that term “party”.

    AmericansElect.org does not publish a platform of positions on questions of public policy. Normal political parties do choose a platform, and the values and/or ideology that form the bases of their thinking as they take their platform positions, takes center stage in distinguishing one party from another.

    Since AmericansElect does not have values, an ideology, or a platform, it is not and will not be a third party in the normal sense of the term.

    AmericansElect invites the entire electorate to vote on a nomination, using, and this is important, _several rounds of voting_. If the electorate takes up AmericansElect on its invitation and indeed participates in the voting to be mediated by AmericansElect, and if AmericansElect honestly mediates the process they say they will, then by the last round of voting, the eligible voters will have chosen who they think should be the President of the US, and they will have done so by a process that is more democratic than the processes used to date in the US for filling that office. So, when the voters go to the polls for the general election, they will know (if sufficient numbers of them, a very high proportion, have participated in the AE process and if everyone knows that so many have partcipated) who _should_ become president according to democratic republicanism.

    Correct me if I guess your reasoning incorrectly, but I suppose you think that the worst case for the “splitting” scenario you have in mind is that come the time of the general election, we find that the Democratic Party has nominated Mr. Obama, the Republican party some candidate X, and the participants who voted via the process mediated by AmericansElect.org have chosen some other candidate Y, where X not equal to Y. If sufficient numbers of the voters will have already participated with AmericansElect, and assuming that Y and Obama were also candidates for the numination of the AmericansElect process, then vast numbers of the voters will have _already_ considered all three candidates and picked X over both Obama and Y. So, it seems likely that X will win, not Obama. If not, it would have to be either because of the difference between the effect of the electoral college and the popular vote, or because too many people listened to you and refrained from participating in AE.

    So, again, how do you figure that the AE process will split the anti-Obama vote? Just repeating a statement and calling it fact is not the same as arguing for it. Can you posit some count of Obama supporters, supporters of the Republican candidate, and supporters of the AE candidate such that Obama would receive a plurality of the popular vote in the general election without actually enjoying the support of a majority of the electorate?

  4. Justin Holland · Owner/Partner at Semi-Retired
    William Waugh I do not have to say anymore. My goal is to make sure Obama is not re-elected. He is a SOCIALIST, plain and simple. I have given years of my life fighting SOCIALISTs to keep my Country Free. I will not stop as long as I breathe. What I do know is that AE is making an effort to ensure Obama, the devote Socialist, is re-elected. I know that, you know that, and soon the whole world will understand. So, my advice to you is to try and convert someone else. Until then, I will meet you at the crossroads.
    Reply · Like · Unfollow Post · about an hour ago

    William Waugh
    I want the people who live in my country to be free, not the country. The country is already too free. It is free to murder and torture its citizens and others. It is free to violate its own constitution.

    As to what has passed between you and me already, obviously I can’t force you to argue for your position. Instead, you just repeat it. You say “What I do know is that AE is making an effort to ensure Obama … is re-elected.” But you don’t give evidence that they are making such an effort.

  5. More traffic copied from Facebook:

    Samuel G Watkins · Retired at Rexham
    I don/t know how Mr. Holland can call AE any kind of socialism -The goal as I see it is to involve as many different political views as possible. Varied candidates means more participation, more voters, and a responsive congress to work for all Americans. Mr.Holland appears to be part of the current problem of demonizing what he doesn/t know or understand. BE part of the solution or stay part of the problem.
    Reply · Like · Unfollow Post · Thursday at 1:17pm

    Justin Holland · Owner/Partner at Semi-Retired
    1st do you understand what SOCIALISM is? 2nd do you want a SOCIALIST gov’t? 3rd have studied the history of SOCIALISM? 4th if you say yes to #3, do you support a SOCIALIST gov’t and society for the United States? 5th prove to me that you are NOT a SOCIALIST.
    Reply · Like · 2 hours ago

  6. Kiernan Majerus-Collins said on Facebook:
    William Waugh, you appear to misunderstand the US election system. A Republican and a Democrat will be on the ballot. Maybe there will be a third party. But there simply is no runoff. That’s not how it works.
    Reply · Like · about an hour ago

    William Waugh (I) reply:
    Kiernan Majerus-Collins , I’m saying that if AE does as they promise, and if many, many voters participate at AE, then when they go to the general election, they will have every reason to vote the same way as they did in the final round of AE voting.

[2011-12-20 edit continued — paste in additional traffic from Facebook]

 Kiernan Majerus-Collins

William Waugh, I have no confidence in that happening. 150 million+ Americans vote in the general election. Until I see AE having at least 50 million participants, all it is doing is playing the role of spoiler.
Reply · Like · Saturday at 2:40pm
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